"The Actual achievement is beside the point. That main thing is, we encourage our people to view every habit and custom with an eye to possible improvement. A constantly experimental attitude toward everything- that's all we need. Solutions to problems of every sort follow almost miraculously." (page 25)
It struck me that we don't do that at all...people are very happy and comfortable with the way things are that improvement isn't considered and sometimes avoided.
_Jeff
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I would agree, Jeff, that far too often we sit idly by and accept things the way they are. Experimentation, innovation, and imagination in making our world a better place is designated for others to worry about, unfortunately these 'others' have yet to be found.
ReplyDeleteAbout Skinner's comment though I must say that it is a self-defeating statement. He, like many scientists, want pure science without philosophy but it cannot be done. To have a society with a "constantly experimental attitude toward everything" means to constantly experiment with the idea of constantly experimenting. So to keep logically consistent they would have to stop experimentation at some point, which would be counter to the entire goal of Walden Two.
If that wasn't enough, to have 1000 people in constant experimentation they, at least a large majority, are going to come to vastly differing opinions. Skinner throws in words like "engineering" to magically explain how those disagreements "would never happen here".
This kind of thought/experimentation would eventually destroy the community.
In a socialist utopia what would actually motivate people to come up with new ideas and experiments?
ReplyDeleteWe adopted a new fire drill procedure this year at school and the teachers flipped out! I'll spare you the details, but the old system was highly flawed, and the new system is much more simple and efficient (except for a few outlier teachers), yet people were very put out by the change. When I presented the issue to a colleague she said, "Well I guess we are just used to the disfunction." People would rather deal with what they already know, even if it's convoluted and/or poorly designed, than attempt something new.
ReplyDelete"Change will never occur until the pain of the situation is greater than the pain of the change."
Directed to Sey's post;
ReplyDeleteI don't if I follow...Walden 2 is basing its "experimentation theory" on the knowledge they already know, which means since the world they come from wasn't always experimenting they have already tied that. As a utopian society they can already rule out the things the normal world have tried...but beyond that I absolutely agree that the differing opinions in an experimenting society would get overwhelming and everyone would be talking and nobody would be listening. Hopefully Skinner will develop more (obviously).
-Jeff
I think you're right Jeff. I think I get lost in what Skinner is assuming would happen and not happen among the people of Walden. And the same with Skinner's theories.
ReplyDeleteHi there
ReplyDeleteI have to say that although it may seem daunting and potentially never-ending, the idea of constant and continual experimentation for any and all societal practices (I.e. from the design of a dinner tray to the question of whether sharing a bed in marriage effects long-term success) seems appealing and ultimately beneficial to me; the idea he's drawing from is “philosophic doubt,” which means continually questioning and evaluating that which we regard as “fact...” never accepting anything simply because its a complicated topic, we're comfortable, or its been laid out for us. Anyway, this resonates well with me! Cassie, your example is money, please update us on how that goes and if the resistance deteriorates with time! I'm curious!
I agree with Rybear and Jeff in that Walden II can't truly be placed in a test tube and “experimentally demonstrated;” individual parts and procedures may (I.e. individualized schooling or community-child rearing can be compared to a control group and measure for the outcome differences) but it would be impossible to run what Skinner calls a “component analysis” to find out example which essential, basic things are fundamentally necessary for the success of his community...it's too late, it's too later, and to dissect every part is impossible...although, there is the opportunity to do this with future Walden communities.